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don't question about it and every

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conversation every show that we've ever

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done

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i've just walked away just a little bit

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smarter

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some call them the beard of knowledge

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that's right randall carlson master

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builder architectural designer teacher

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geometrician

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geomythologist geological explorer and

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renegade scholar he has four decades of

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study and research and exploration into

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the interface between ancient mysteries

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and modern science and has been an

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active freemason for 30 years and is

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past master of one of the oldest and

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largest masonic lodges in georgia now

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his work incorporates ancient mythology

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astronomy earth science paleontology

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symbolism sacred geometry architecture

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geomancy and other arcane and scientific

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traditions for over 25 years he has

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presented classes lectures and

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multimedia programs synthesizing this

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information

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for the students of the mysteries and of

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course he will be presenting and

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teaching

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at our

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soul tech 2.0 in loveland colorado and i

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would like to welcome back to fade to

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black the beard of knowledge randall

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carlson randall good evening

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well thanks for having me back jimmy you

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know randall

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there are there are voices that i hear

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once in a while that just relax me and

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take me into that zone

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you know you've got that gift

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you've got that gift

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yeah well let's just head into the zone

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yeah let's do that and and

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have you

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always

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had that gift

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let's go back to when you're like five

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years old and you're hanging out with

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your friends

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were you

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well you didn't have a beard but

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were you that were you that guy you know

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i actually i think i became that guy at

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seven

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tell me about it how did you figure it

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out

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well

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i think a lot of it had to do with

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where we lived at the time and

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also the fact that i just had parents

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and grandparents that encouraged an

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interest in in many things

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we lived in rural minnesota we had land

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on the edge of a lake which was one of

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these leftover puddles from the great

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ice age

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and

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living there until i was nine years old

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pretty much and

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um

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just becoming

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very much enchanted with this landscape

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um

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i actually then moved away for a couple

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of two and a half years but then came

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back and then continued living

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in the same area on the same lake in a

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different house but

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right up until i was uh 16 so then

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spent most of my first 16 years

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living there in this environment in

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rural minnesota and um

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you know i just i remember early on

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learning about the great ice age and

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being really fascinated by that and i

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you know i couldn't have been

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seven or eight years old at that point i

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guess um you mentioned your parents and

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your grandparents um which is always

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you know the guidance that sets you on

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your path for life we all go through

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that no matter what if it's a good

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relationship or a bad one

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it sets you on your path so when you say

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that they encourage these things were

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were they cool were they

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uh were they reading

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blavatsky you know i don't know i mean

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what well not quite but my father he was

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a um you know he was basically well he

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was a carpenter and a master carpenter

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as was his dad

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so i grew up when i was a a kid they had

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uh carlson and son uh homebuilders and

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it would be the two of them and

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they would build a house pretty much do

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almost everything and then sell the

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house and then build another one and

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sell that um

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so

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you know being around

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building i'm sure had an influence

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because you know building your your

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building is all about geometry right

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it's all about processes um

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so that was a big part of it but also

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the fact my dad was a a rather

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interesting fellow he um

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you know he had no college but he was a

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very smart man and he was interested a

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lot of things so we had

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books uh around the house about yoga

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about martial arts

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about shamanism and this you know we're

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talking about the 1950s

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so i remember a book

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that he had was about australian

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shamanism

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and

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it was talking about their various

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practices and that was very early i

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guess

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eight eight nine years old was about

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time i had learned how to read i was i

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was very intrigued by those kind of

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books it was him that first told me

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about

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he said used to well you know there used

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to be a big ice sheet here or big ice

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cap where we live and it covered all the

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land and it was you know thousands of

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feet thick and

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when it melted away that's why there's

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so many lakes around here and which is

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you know exactly why there are so many

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lakes in

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minnesota and wisconsin

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and so i think living

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in an environment where everything every

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hill

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every hollow

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you know every ridge every lake

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everything had been shaped

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by the presence of these great ice

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sheets and then the melting of these

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great ice sheets now you don't really

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understand that you don't consciously

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are aware of it

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but growing up you know

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in you know by the time we got 16 you

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know we

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me and my brothers and my friends from

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around we we rambled over that that land

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for for miles i mean and

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you know it was all privately owned land

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but you know

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people didn't care i mean we were out we

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usually usually hardly ever even saw

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anyone sometimes we'd just be out um

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you know we have canoe we had canoes so

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we lived on one end of the lake we could

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paddle up to the other end of the lake

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schmidt lake

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a short portage over we were at bass

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lake then we could paddle our canoes

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across bass lake a short party from

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there was eagle lake we could paddle our

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canoes across there we could spend all

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day out you know taking our canoes

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and so you know this was the kind of

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things we were doing as boys at

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10 years old 11 12 years old

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then

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uh you know our nearest neighbors were

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all farmers so i had a

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good my best friend was a

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youngest boy uh in a family farm family

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with 10 kids

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and we were the same age we grew up

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together so

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early on you know play on the farm and

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then by the time i think i turned 12 or

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13 then i started working on the farm

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and so

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doing farm work i think was

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an

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you know seeing how things work in in

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the real world you know as opposed to

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the way they might work in an urban

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environment where everything is

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regimented and you know it's all about

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social social climbing and it's not when

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you're out on the farm you know it just

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it is what it is

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you know i mean

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we'd be out you know we'd find a a

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carcass of a calf for example right

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maybe got the calf but it might have

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been coyotes

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um

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and then you'd see

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over a period of weeks

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the carcass that we'd be out there

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hiking around walking around whatever

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we'd see the carcass of this calf and

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then after

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several weeks it had decayed and then

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after a month it would or two it would

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be a skeleton out there and then the

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following year would go out and go you

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know there'd be no trace left of that

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of that animal and so you know seeing

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things like that i later on i would

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think back that often when i'm

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studying things you know 30 years later

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things like taphonomy which is the study

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of fossilization and how an animal

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what happens to an animal between the

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time it dies and the time it becomes a

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fossil

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how does that process

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occur of course there's multiple

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processes but in nature what usually

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happens is that some creature dies

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and its constituent components get

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completely recycled just like this

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remains of this calf that we would have

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found out in the field right you know by

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the following season or the end of the

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summer there's nothing left see there's

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nothing there to become a fossil so

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a lot of i think was just being in an

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environment like that you know we had a

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you know winter

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the uh lake would freeze over of course

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and then my grandfather would put

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an ice house out on the on the ice auger

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a hole through it so i could go out

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there and sit with him and we'd catch

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fish i in the summer i would sit on a

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log that had fallen

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over a tree had fallen over the lake and

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i would sit out there with my fishing

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pole and catch fish and we would have

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cookouts in our backyard and then

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the farm where my best buddy lived they

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they boarded horses so once they hit

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about 12 13 years old and they started

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working on the farm the main reason i

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worked was because after

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the pay you know i think we maybe got 80

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cents an hour if that right um

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for hard brutal work

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hauling in

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hundreds of hay bales and that kind of

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stuff but the reason i did it was

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so we could saddle up the horses after

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after work and go riding man you had you

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had it going on

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i mean as a kid that's pretty that's

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pretty amazing

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yeah and i of course to me that was just

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hey this is the way it is i took it for

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granted i thought this is how

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everybody lived you know and it was only

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later

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god i was i was really lucky

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to have that kind of a situation and um

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i was you know we had my mother had this

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huge garden so

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you know she was constantly you know we

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were eating home

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uh you know stuff we'd grown ourselves

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we got most of our eggs and meat and

284
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:30,959
cheese from farms within a mile or two

285
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:33,360
of where we lived so i mean this is this

286
00:10:38,310 --> 00:10:36,800
is in the 1950s and then in but then

287
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:38,320
my parents couldn't make it work for

288
00:10:44,069 --> 00:10:41,839
whatever reason so 1960 they

289
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:44,079
split up they got divorced and my mother

290
00:10:49,269 --> 00:10:47,680
moved me and my three brothers with her

291
00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:49,279
back home where she was from which was

292
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,600
small town louisiana

293
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:53,360
so that was quite a different

294
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:54,480
environment

295
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:55,279
but

296
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,680
looking back now i realize

297
00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:59,519
that now having a chance to spend two

298
00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:01,200
and a half years you know

299
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:03,839
for now instead of uh you know canoeing

300
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:06,640
uh up in a in a minnesota lake we're you

301
00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:08,720
know polling john boats through the

302
00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:11,120
bayous for a couple and a half for two

303
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,680
and a half years there so it was just

304
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:15,839
this contrast i think it was the fact

305
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,000
that there was so much rural

306
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:21,200
uh dimension to my growing up okay now

307
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,240
coupled that with the fact that

308
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,680
both my mother

309
00:11:30,069 --> 00:11:27,680
and my dad's mother

310
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:30,079
both loved to read so there were books

311
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:31,120
and

312
00:11:33,269 --> 00:11:32,160
uh

313
00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:33,279
i you know

314
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,880
i guess let's say i was nine years old

315
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,720
for my christmas or birthday present i

316
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,959
get a subscription to all about books i

317
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,720
don't know if you oh yeah

318
00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:42,800
i do remember that every month i'd get a

319
00:11:46,870 --> 00:11:44,560
new all about book it'd be all about

320
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:46,880
electricity all about fossils you know

321
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:48,800
all about the weather

322
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:52,160
and i just really early on got very very

323
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:53,920
interested in science

324
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:55,440
you know i think

325
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:57,279
let me let me jump in for one second

326
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,600
because you said something that

327
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:01,600
uh had to

328
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:04,160
affect you when when

329
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,720
your grandfather or your father turns to

330
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,320
you and says

331
00:12:12,470 --> 00:12:10,560
we you know you're not seven eight nine

332
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,480
years old and says you know there was

333
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:14,480
you know there was a few thousand feet

334
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:18,000
of ice above our heads at one point

335
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:20,639
that because you you don't you can't

336
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,920
grasp it

337
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:24,560
really how intense that is but a few

338
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:26,880
thousand feet might as well be 10 miles

339
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,600
in your mind right you're picturing that

340
00:12:35,509 --> 00:12:31,760
and and but this is that

341
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,519
at that age and and to put it in to

342
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,440
a context here

343
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,120
imagine

344
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:41,920
the sears tower in chicago

345
00:12:45,910 --> 00:12:44,000
with another thousand feet of ice above

346
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:45,920
it right

347
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:48,160
or or manhattan

348
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:50,720
right completely

349
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,120
with another thousand feet on top of

350
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,720
that or more

351
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:56,720
that's that's what was going on back

352
00:13:02,310 --> 00:12:59,200
then and that will change you it changed

353
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:02,320
me the first time i heard it

354
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:05,839
yeah yeah it it i well here i am

355
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,880
whatever you know 60 years later

356
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,720
and i'm remembering that i you know of

357
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,720
course the memory has faded from you

358
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:14,079
know what it was

359
00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:15,760
you know as you get older it's kind of

360
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,240
like maybe an old movie reel or

361
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:20,160
something it just gets worn and more

362
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,040
worn

363
00:13:25,750 --> 00:13:22,880
but you know i have these

364
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:25,760
snapshot memories and one of them is my

365
00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,560
dad telling me about that you know there

366
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:31,120
had been ice there and we had a book

367
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,480
um it might have been a book on

368
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,320
geography it seemed like it was a book

369
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,560
on geography and in there looking at it

370
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,920
it had pictures

371
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,240
and in retrospect i think the pictures

372
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:42,880
were actually pictures of the little ice

373
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:44,320
age because you know there were a lot of

374
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,760
these um

375
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,480
you know wood cuts and sketches and and

376
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,240
paintings made particularly during the

377
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:53,360
17th and 1800s when all the glaciers

378
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,079
were growing so uh massively throughout

379
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:58,320
the alps and really around the world

380
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,240
right and the glaciers came down and

381
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:03,040
swallowed up the farms in many cases

382
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,760
they moved into valleys um

383
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,199
and we had this book that had some of

384
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,839
those pictures in it in in

385
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:11,760
you know in retrospect i'm thinking well

386
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,800
it was two different things we're

387
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:15,120
talking about the great ice age you know

388
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,040
when minnesota was half covered in ice

389
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:20,320
we're going back 10 to 15 000 years ago

390
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,320
little ice age we're going back 200

391
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,480
years ago but but it still made that

392
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,399
same impression on me i you know i had

393
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,040
now a visual in my mind seeing that

394
00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:31,680
picture in that geography book of these

395
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:34,320
big you know big glaciers i actually

396
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:36,800
remember it was kind of unnerving it was

397
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:39,600
a little bit it was almost like you know

398
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:43,199
maybe a sort of a a dark thing rather

399
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:46,399
than just you know now i it's you know

400
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,399
at some point it becomes wow this is

401
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,880
awesome but it was kind of awful in a

402
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,120
way to think about that you know to a

403
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:55,120
little kid you know thinking about

404
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:57,040
wow you know because you don't have a

405
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,720
framework you don't have a framework you

406
00:15:01,269 --> 00:15:00,000
don't understand

407
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,279
you know

408
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,120
too much the difference between 10 000

409
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:05,760
years and 10 million years right might

410
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:07,839
as well be the same thing what about the

411
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:08,959
others

412
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,760
yeah

413
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:11,760
i'm sorry i just interrupted you but

414
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:14,399
they're no go ahead the uh what about

415
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,040
minnesota is a very very fascinating

416
00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,279
state uh as is

417
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,120
you know the upper peninsula and

418
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:23,760
wisconsin and and the dakotas and

419
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:26,320
montana very fascinating areas but

420
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:27,680
minnesota

421
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,199
has got a lot of fringe things going on

422
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:33,199
there uh like

423
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:35,600
the kensington ruinstone and

424
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:38,480
some of the uh ancient discoveries that

425
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:41,600
uh have uh been found there did you know

426
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,320
about any of that growing up

427
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,560
oh we of course you know we'd all i

428
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,920
think heard about the kensington

429
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,440
runestone um

430
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:50,959
although

431
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:54,880
my memory of it then was that i yeah

432
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:57,199
certainly remember hearing about it

433
00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:00,079
early on probably in grade school right

434
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,320
but i think the sort of the dominant

435
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:04,639
opinion at the time was that it was a

436
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,680
more recent hoax whereas i think now

437
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,120
you know i think they're willing to to

438
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,199
concede that yeah it really is

439
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,600
um what five or six hundred years old

440
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:16,160
anyway mm-hmm

441
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:19,120
so or maybe even older all right i i'm

442
00:16:22,710 --> 00:16:20,480
not

443
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,720
quite up to speed on the latest research

444
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:24,720
on the kensington runestone i know that

445
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,000
um

446
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,320
oh what's his name scott walter yeah

447
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,399
yeah scott scott walter yeah he he would

448
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,800
be the man to ask on that oh yeah we we

449
00:16:35,749 --> 00:16:34,480
talked to scott all the time he was on

450
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:35,759
with this last week

451
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,199
but but i i recently saw

452
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:41,360
uh i found

453
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,560
a documentary this is no joke i can't

454
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:46,399
even believe it this was uh six months

455
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,519
ago i'll find the link i'll find out

456
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:51,839
what it was and i'll i'll get it to you

457
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:54,240
it was literally

458
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,759
a documentary from the 70s

459
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,600
from the 70s

460
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,759
you know square frame right three by

461
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:04,400
four ratio right

462
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:05,839
documentary

463
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:09,439
of ancient artifacts from minnesota

464
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:12,640
right yeah it was crazy

465
00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,120
i had no idea of course they covered the

466
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,679
kensington runestone but there was stuff

467
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:19,919
being dug up every you know town and

468
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:22,959
homestead and home site and things uh

469
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,720
stuff that were being dug up all over

470
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:26,559
minnesota and i had no idea and they

471
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:28,799
traveled to a couple of museums and

472
00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:31,360
little you know backwoods museums and

473
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,160
and going uh in these back rooms and and

474
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:36,160
revealing these different artifacts and

475
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:38,960
it was it was pretty nutty to see one of

476
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:40,080
them

477
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:41,360
uh

478
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:43,679
i want to get this right

479
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,480
there was a very small i want to say it

480
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:49,440
was like slate and maybe

481
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,080
one and a half inches by one inches a

482
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:54,640
little like like a pendant

483
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,520
with

484
00:17:58,830 --> 00:17:57,919
he ancient hebrew

485
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:58,840
ten

486
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:00,799
commandments right

487
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,840
dug up in minnesota

488
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:05,679
and i saw this documentary i'll get i'll

489
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:06,799
get you that

490
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,960
but that

491
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:10,880
yeah it reminds me of the old frank

492
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:13,520
zappa and the mothers of invention song

493
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:15,919
who could imagine that they would freak

494
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,640
out in minnesota

495
00:18:23,669 --> 00:18:21,120
was the line of the song yeah and here i

496
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,679
was 16 listening to frank zappa and i'm

497
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,080
going hey well at least i think one of

498
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,559
us is freaking out yes yeah are you

499
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:31,280
talking about the first album freak out

500
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,160
the first album yeah the very first

501
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,559
how many people know about freak out the

502
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,880
first [\h__\h] of invention album i

503
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:40,480
still listen to it

504
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:46,950
i'm going to go eight i'm going to say

505
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:50,799
68 maybe i'm going to go 67 yeah my

506
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:54,000
might even be before that

507
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:55,760
you know i here here's how much i used

508
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,360
to listen to it well i'm about to get

509
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:59,280
upset from watching my tv and checking

510
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,880
out the news until my eyeballs fail to

511
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,720
see i mean to say that every day another

512
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:04,320
rotten myth and when it's going to

513
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:06,000
change my friend is anybody's guess so

514
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:06,640
i'm

515
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,760
for the best this time i hear him saying

516
00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:11,039
that there's no way to delay that

517
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:13,120
trouble coming every day and i could go

518
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,280
on but i won't but see i don't remember

519
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,679
that from 1967

520
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:19,520
yeah amy are you ready you're right how

521
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:22,559
religiously i listened to it

522
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:26,559
june 27th 1966

523
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,960
holy crap okay 66. wow yeah yeah i

524
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,080
didn't yeah i didn't get it till um the

525
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:36,240
following yeah i got i bought that in

526
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:38,960
the summer of 67 that's when i bought it

527
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,440
i can tell you i can tell you right now

528
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:43,919
uh and frank zappa's had this effect on

529
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:46,080
anybody that's a frank zappa fan

530
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,000
pretty much

531
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:50,160
i could recite

532
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:52,400
any album that i was a fan of you know

533
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:55,520
going back to the mid 70s of frank zappa

534
00:20:00,150 --> 00:19:57,120
i can still

535
00:20:01,909 --> 00:20:00,160
i can recite word for word every song on

536
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:01,919
every album

537
00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:04,640
i can do it i can do it

538
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:07,440
yeah no problem i do it all the time i

539
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,080
do it all the time see that's why i knew

540
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:12,640
you were cool you just that that was

541
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:16,080
that was the big reveal right there

542
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:17,760
now uh now

543
00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:20,559
let's get this set up for when we return

544
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,160
um at what point did you

545
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,480
take the right hand turn

546
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,280
where you went okay all right this crap

547
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:32,400
ain't right we're being fed

548
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,799
a big bowl of of fruit and nuts here

549
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:38,559
what what what happened what tipped the

550
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,430
that happened

551
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:46,240
between the ages of 16 and 18. um

552
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:50,559
clearly um at 16 i we had been living

553
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:53,440
out by the lake there in rural minnesota

554
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,320
it's summer of 1967. my mother is still

555
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:58,480
living in louisiana she has now

556
00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,760
um

557
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,320
gone to work for wbrz television in

558
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,320
baton rouge louisiana which was i think

559
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:07,039
the second largest television station

560
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:08,960
one of her duties one of her jobs at the

561
00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:11,600
station was she set up i'm sure

562
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:15,039
what they call this job but she whenever

563
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,559
entertainers or celebrities or

564
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:20,720
bands or anything would come to town she

565
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,280
was responsible for setting up their

566
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,640
venues a lot um the booking the hotel

567
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,640
rooms the limousines all of this kind of

568
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:30,480
so she had this pretty glamorous job

569
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,360
right

570
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:32,960
now i've been living out in this in

571
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,520
rural minnesota you know so

572
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:37,840
um other than the the two and a half

573
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:40,640
years i was in small town louisiana i'm

574
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:43,039
still living out there i'm pretty

575
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:46,400
dumb naive country boy 16. you go to

576
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,600
visit my mother summer of 67. so

577
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,200
first thing that happens is we start

578
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:53,440
partying with the who and herman's

579
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,559
hermits and and blues magoos and these

580
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,080
bands that are coming to town and i'm

581
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:00,799
thinking this is really cool i'm gonna

582
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,480
so we decided we're gonna stay there and

583
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:03,760
live

584
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:06,240
so me and my two younger brothers who

585
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:08,240
were my dad's boys we move in with my

586
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:09,120
mom

587
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:10,799
she has actually an apartment she buys a

588
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:13,120
house we move into a kind of a swanky

589
00:22:16,149 --> 00:22:15,200
subdivision of baton rouge we start

590
00:22:20,070 --> 00:22:16,159
school

591
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,080
started going downhill

592
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,640
i got sent home my mother did they cut

593
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,480
day or couple of days before school my

594
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,240
mother had taken me and gotten this

595
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,240
expensive you know of course my hair had

596
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,240
kind of gotten bushy over the summer she

597
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,240
took me and got this uh

598
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:34,640
you know expensive razor haircut stuff

599
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:37,120
first day of school i get sent home

600
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:40,080
because the they sent me my home room

601
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:43,039
teacher sends me to the office so they

602
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:45,200
go down there they had two fingers above

603
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,880
my eyebrows

604
00:22:50,470 --> 00:22:48,960
my hair is it's touching your ears and

605
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,480
it's touching your collar and back so i

606
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,720
got sent home from school the first day

607
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:54,799
so it really it went downhill from there

608
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:55,600
and

609
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:58,799
i became very rebellious against

610
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:01,200
what i saw as this kind of oppressive

611
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:04,080
authoritarian system of idiots that were

612
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:05,120
like

613
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,720
pretty much thought they had it all

614
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:08,400
figured out and

615
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:11,120
it just i i was you know it was great

616
00:23:15,029 --> 00:23:12,960
until the day school started so i

617
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:15,039
managed to get through most of that year

618
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,039
but by the end of the year

619
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:19,760
i couldn't even i couldn't stand

620
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,240
even a minute in that school so i

621
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,159
started skipping school

622
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:26,640
getting in trouble and i got in a lot of

623
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:29,919
trouble uh the last few months early 68

624
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,240
and this and so did my brothers and we

625
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:33,919
all got in so much trouble like one of

626
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,080
my brothers i got so much trouble that

627
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:38,400
he was went to court and he was told he

628
00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:41,760
would go to i guess reform school for

629
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:45,280
however long or he could leave the state

630
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:46,640
so wow

631
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:48,240
we came back all

632
00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:50,000
one year down there i then moved back to

633
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:51,760
minnesota

634
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:52,720
and

635
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:57,200
away who i was very close to um

636
00:24:01,830 --> 00:23:59,039
and in fact it happened that summer of

637
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,840
67 we had come down there and it was

638
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,760
just a few weeks before school started

639
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,440
actually when the news came that she had

640
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,400
passed away so i had this whole and i

641
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:10,640
was very close to to my grandmother my

642
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,520
and so i had this kind of this

643
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,200
what would you say i was grieving i was

644
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:17,200
internalizing this grieving so i had

645
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,559
this going on

646
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,320
psychologically and emotionally when i

647
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:22,320
went into went to this new school

648
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:24,880
environment so the second day i guess it

649
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:26,880
was a school i'm going from one class to

650
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,440
another and i get surrounded by a group

651
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:31,520
of the local

652
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:33,679
whatever they were you know the cool

653
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,840
guys of the school and they surrounded

654
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,400
me about five or six of them to tell

655
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:40,559
tell me how much they didn't like guys

656
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,679
like me

657
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:44,480
so i kind of became an outcast

658
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,919
for that year that i was down there

659
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,679
gotten a lot the the people i started

660
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:49,919
hanging out with were were not the good

661
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:52,240
boys you know the exemplary ones they

662
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:54,799
were the troublemakers so

663
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,480
i after year of that i came back to

664
00:25:01,070 --> 00:24:58,720
minnesota and i had an attitude i had

665
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,080
really within that year developed this

666
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:03,760
anti-authoritarian attitude

667
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:05,679
but once i got back to minnesota i kind

668
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:07,600
of calmed down a little bit i

669
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,200
you know the last three or four months

670
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,720
that i was living there in baton rouge i

671
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,720
mean i was really

672
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,960
blown out at both ends and i if i kept

673
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,200
doing that i mean yeah where i would

674
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,799
have ended up you know

675
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:20,960
arousing and partying and drinking and

676
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:22,640
smoking and doing all these kind of

677
00:25:26,710 --> 00:25:23,840
things

678
00:25:29,269 --> 00:25:26,720
came back to minnesota and i just

679
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:29,279
calmed down and then that fall fall of

680
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:30,480
68

681
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:34,159
i started going to hanging out with um

682
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,000
went out of place in minneapolis called

683
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:38,799
the west bank and the west bank was like

684
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,440
the haight ashbury of the midwest okay

685
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,120
let me jump in right there that's a

686
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,960
perfect spot i gotta take a break and

687
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,039
let's do it now

688
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:49,440
and west bank let me get that down

689
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,720
because that's what we're picking up

690
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,799
when we come back our guest tonight

691
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,960
randall carlson

692
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,559
we're going to do it all tonight we got

693
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,080
a lot to cover it's going to be a great

694
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:00,480
conversation stay with us

695
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:02,159
i'm your host jimmy church this is fade

696
00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:03,600
to block more with randall after this

697
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:05,030
short break stay with us

698
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,640
[Music]

699
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:09,440
you're listening to a preview of fade to

700
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,360
black to get the full episode go to

701
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:13,760
chimneychurchradio.com

702
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:16,480
and get our podcast click on the podcast

703
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,279
banner or sign up in the membership area

704
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:22,320
for downloadable mp3s everything

705
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:28,390
all right welcome back fade to black i'm

706
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:30,480
your host jimmy church tonight randall

707
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:31,970
carlson is here

708
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:34,880
[Music]

709
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,279
buckle up kiddies it is going to be one

710
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:39,679
of those conversations and

711
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:41,760
i always enjoy it when randall is here

712
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:43,919
and right before the break

713
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:46,720
uh randall you brought up uh west bank

714
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:49,679
the haight ashbury of minnesota

715
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:52,240
now if you're going to go and start to

716
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,039
uh

717
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:55,440
figure things out about life i would say

718
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:01,269
yeah over the break i was thinking god

719
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:02,880
maybe i shouldn't have gone there that

720
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:05,679
might be a little too controversial

721
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,320
not at all what the heck yeah not at all

722
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:10,240
not at all not at all well see the thing

723
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:13,440
is it's you it's you know it's part of

724
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,799
of you

725
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:17,200
when i went to uh san francisco the

726
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:19,279
first time you know what i did i didn't

727
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,480
want to do i didn't want to see the

728
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,400
golden gate bridge i didn't want to do

729
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,559
that i didn't want to see whatever uh

730
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:26,720
the hill the winding streets

731
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:29,279
no i went straight to the haight ashbury

732
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:30,240
sign

733
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,159
and took a picture under it you know

734
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:34,640
they crossed right hate and ashbury

735
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:36,320
that's all i wanted

736
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,760
and you damn did it

737
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:44,000
that's it that's it so i'm with you on

738
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:44,720
that

739
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:46,640
i'm with you and so

740
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:50,720
uh were you uh were you starting to

741
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,520
research were you starting to get into

742
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:55,120
this

743
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,840
yeah well here's i'll back up a year one

744
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,679
that that for that

745
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:01,039
school that first

746
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,200
day of school in baton rouge there was

747
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:05,840
another boy in my ho in my homeroom

748
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,039
uh who was also his first day of that

749
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,600
school he and his mother his divorced

750
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:14,240
mother like i had was with my divorce

751
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,279
mother right

752
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:16,960
he had just moved from california just

753
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:19,679
moved from l.a so that first day

754
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,480
he and i got sent home so we both

755
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:24,720
actually got sent down to the office by

756
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,760
our homeroom and homeroom teacher so

757
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,080
right there we we bonded over that see

758
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,399
now he had just moved from la and of

759
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:34,559
course he had managed to get in the

760
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,360
scene out there and so he was constantly

761
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,520
telling me about the virtues of

762
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:41,440
the psychedelic experience and all of

763
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:43,279
this kind of thing so he was my best

764
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,120
friend for that year that i was down

765
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:49,750
is it okay to talk about that subject

766
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,080
yeah good absolutely

767
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:54,480
absolutely right good okay my kind of

768
00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:55,840
man all right

769
00:28:59,590 --> 00:28:56,840
so

770
00:29:01,990 --> 00:28:59,600
anyways i haven't done anything i'm i'm

771
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:02,000
totally innocent i had tried my first

772
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:05,200
puff of marijuana uh early 68 he had

773
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,520
gotten some i tried i tried again i

774
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:09,279
tried again it did absolutely nothing

775
00:29:15,029 --> 00:29:12,080
for me so i said well i guess i'm immune

776
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,039
and that was that was my my attitude um

777
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,200
this this stuff doesn't work on me so i

778
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:19,600
just kind of lost interest in it

779
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:20,880
and then

780
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:23,440
so it's now fall i'm back in minnesota

781
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:24,320
um

782
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,919
my grandmother has passed away the

783
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,360
previous summer

784
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:29,520
the there was a recession that pretty

785
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,559
much

786
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,640
killed my dad my grandpa's business for

787
00:29:36,389 --> 00:29:34,480
a few years so in order to get through

788
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,399
that my dad sold the house we'd been

789
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:37,679
living in

790
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:40,720
and he and his new wife and their young

791
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,440
son my half brother had moved into

792
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,600
my grandparents house right my

793
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,120
grandfather was living there in the

794
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:49,039
basement my grandmother was gone so it

795
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:51,440
was just my grandfather alone we me and

796
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,640
my two brothers came back we're all

797
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,080
living in this little house in

798
00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:56,399
robbinsdale minnesota

799
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,440
and i go back to i go back to high

800
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,760
school i'm i'm in my senior year of high

801
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:03,440
school back to the same high school that

802
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:06,240
i had gone in my sophomore year

803
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,600
but i'm now making up because i've

804
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,440
pretty much blown my junior year

805
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,360
completely um

806
00:30:17,350 --> 00:30:13,600
i can still remember my my getting my

807
00:30:20,110 --> 00:30:17,360
final report card was five f's and a b

808
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,120
and the b was for phys ed so you can see

809
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:22,480
academically i pretty much was a

810
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,360
complete washout right

811
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,840
so i came back and i thought okay i'm

812
00:30:31,909 --> 00:30:29,440
going to do better i'm going to make up

813
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:31,919
for this bad year and i took kind of an

814
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:34,159
extra course or two so

815
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,440
come the come spring of 69 when i would

816
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,200
have normally graduated that was just i

817
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,919
was two credits short so i didn't get a

818
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:43,200
diploma

819
00:30:48,549 --> 00:30:45,760
um i actually ended up going back uh

820
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,559
what was it three in 1973

821
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:50,399
taking a two-month program

822
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:51,200
um

823
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,880
taking math actually because i loved

824
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,159
math and

825
00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:56,960
uh my my uh high school awarded me a

826
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,320
diploma from you know so i i get over

827
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:02,240
the years i've constantly regularly

828
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:05,840
gotten contacted for um you know class

829
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:08,799
reunions for class of 1973 which of

830
00:31:11,909 --> 00:31:11,120
course was four years behind me

831
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:11,919
um

832
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:15,520
but anyways i'm back in high school now

833
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:17,200
i'm 17

834
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,640
and

835
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,640
at this point now i'm becoming aware of

836
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:23,679
the vietnam war because my older brother

837
00:31:29,510 --> 00:31:26,640
has gone into the air force

838
00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:29,520
my uh i've got a couple of friends that

839
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,520
i've grown up with the guys that i know

840
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:33,840
that are a year or two older than me

841
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,360
they're over

842
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:36,960
they've been drafted

843
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,760
my uh my best friend the the farm boy

844
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,360
that i grew up with his older brother

845
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:43,840
was over in vietnam so up until this

846
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:46,000
point i've been pretty much oblivious to

847
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:47,519
to what was going on it was just

848
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,120
something on the other side of the world

849
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:50,799
that didn't involve me

850
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,399
you know i mean as a kid that's kind of

851
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:54,559
how you you get through that stuff in my

852
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:56,880
teenage years i was more interested you

853
00:32:01,509 --> 00:32:00,080
know at 15 and 16 you know the things i

854
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,519
was interested in

855
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,200
which mostly i guess at that point was

856
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,200
girls um

857
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:07,200
kept me distracted i didn't pay any

858
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:08,799
attention to the vietnam war now i'm

859
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,640
back in minnesota and suddenly you know

860
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:12,720
it's it's 68 and that's the big year

861
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:15,279
that's the tech defensive and and where

862
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:17,679
things really begin to to go crazy over

863
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:19,600
there you know i was the when the when

864
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:20,399
the

865
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:23,760
demonstrations really began in earnest

866
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:25,679
it was you know the assassination of

867
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:27,519
robert kennedy the assassination of

868
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,320
martin luther king you know the the the

869
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,399
the riots at the the democratic

870
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:34,640
convention so you know all of this stuff

871
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:37,200
is going on and i'm 17 and i'm really

872
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:38,960
just now

873
00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,200
becoming aware of all of this and in

874
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,760
realizing oh my gosh you know the things

875
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,559
that are going on out there in the world

876
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:48,480
are going to affect me directly whether

877
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:51,440
i like it or not apparently yeah the uh

878
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:53,919
the contrast between growing up in a

879
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:55,360
rural area

880
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:58,880
and not you know your world is

881
00:33:02,149 --> 00:33:01,200
you know the forest in the lakes in your

882
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:02,159
home

883
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,600
and now

884
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,760
now we have riots in detroit and los

885
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,200
angeles and

886
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:09,200
and uh

887
00:33:11,870 --> 00:33:10,399
in chicago

888
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:11,880
at the at the convention and

889
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:15,039
assassinations and this brutal war going

890
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,919
on in vietnam and the activism

891
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,919
uh that was going across

892
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:21,440
this nation

893
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,240
with your generation and you start to

894
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:26,240
realize at that point that the world is

895
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:28,799
not what it seems right

896
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:32,000
exactly exactly and so there's these two

897
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:33,679
contrasting things going on on the one

898
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,559
hand

899
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:36,799
there's that there's the war the the

900
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:38,559
ever present it got to the point where

901
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,159
you know it was like this black cloud

902
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:42,799
hanging over you every day whereas

903
00:33:47,669 --> 00:33:44,960
up until i guess i would say that summer

904
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,679
of 68 when i moved back from baton rouge

905
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:49,279
is when i really

906
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,880
you know started realizing thinking

907
00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:52,640
about oh yeah there is a war going on

908
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:54,640
and it's getting bigger and i'm knowing

909
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:56,320
people now that are getting sucked into

910
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:56,960
it

911
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,919
you know

912
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:59,679
getting drafted and being sent over

913
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:00,960
there um

914
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:03,440
and then i had uh i guess we'll see

915
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,519
which is i i won't give the whole name

916
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,919
his name was tom he was i knew these two

917
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,599
brothers they they were living on a

918
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,200
neighboring farm they

919
00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:13,200
wrote written the school bus with them

920
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:15,520
for years um i think the youngest

921
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,119
brother was a year younger than me and

922
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,440
the older brother was a year older tom

923
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,480
was a year older and so he got drafted

924
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:24,399
and i i wasn't good friends with him but

925
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:26,000
i'd known him he was a nice kid i'd

926
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:27,520
known him for years we've kind of you

927
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,520
know known each other since literally

928
00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:31,280
from first grade up through high school

929
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,040
right so

930
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:35,440
he went off he became a a gunner in a in

931
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:36,320
a hell

932
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:38,079
helicopter so

933
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:39,520
i saw

934
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:41,280
now it's gotten vague who it was i think

935
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:42,720
it was his younger brother but no

936
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:43,839
probably not his younger brother

937
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:46,079
somebody that was a mutual friend and i

938
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,599
said something about well

939
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:49,599
you know what's taught is tom back from

940
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:50,879
vietnam and

941
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,399
said well yeah he got sent back um you

942
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,399
know they got shot down and he was

943
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:57,680
killed

944
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:00,160
and then he when i said and they sent

945
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,760
you know i heard from his brother that

946
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:03,599
the remains they sent back wouldn't

947
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:05,760
would have barely filled a shoe box and

948
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:07,520
that was just really shocking to me that

949
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,599
was very shocking to me to hear that

950
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,000
this kid and thinking about

951
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:14,160
what had happened to him and

952
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,680
i remember that was kind of a turning

953
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,440
point for me where i really started

954
00:35:20,230 --> 00:35:19,440
going what the hell is going on here you

955
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:20,240
know

956
00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:21,040
um

957
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:24,320
and so it's fall of 68 now

958
00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:25,200
and

959
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,160
i was a a fervent reader i read all the

960
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,280
time and the life magazine had come out

961
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,440
um or was it look one of the two had

962
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,200
come out and had done a

963
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:39,359
feature article on lsd

964
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,119
and you know it was actually probably a

965
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:43,599
few years older before lsd became

966
00:35:48,150 --> 00:35:46,800
demonized uh as it was really during the

967
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,160
nixon years

968
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:50,000
um when they were still thinking that

969
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,079
lsd was going to be a very positive

970
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:54,400
psychological tool

971
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:55,599
right

972
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:57,040
you know

973
00:36:01,670 --> 00:35:58,560
and i remember reading about that and

974
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,680
then my friend in baton rouge had had

975
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,599
had done it about a dozen times so he

976
00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:04,880
was constantly talking about the

977
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:07,040
experience and how incredible it was and

978
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:08,400
this and that so

979
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:11,280
i just decided i wanted to find out more

980
00:36:16,390 --> 00:36:13,839
so i started going down to the to the

981
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,400
west bank which was meant the west bank

982
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,560
of the mississippi river

983
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:20,240
now the university of minnesota is on

984
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,720
the east bank the west bank was kind of

985
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,359
a bohemian area it was

986
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:27,040
it's also called the cedar riverside

987
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:27,920
area

988
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:30,640
and it had one time been settled by the

989
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,359
the scandinavians so when i was a kid i

990
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,680
can remember my grandfather who was

991
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,240
an immigrant from from sweden came over

992
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,480
when he was 16 years old on a cattle

993
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,960
boat riding with the cattle right that

994
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,240
was my grandfather that was the

995
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,839
carpenter that

996
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:47,440
worked with my father and i remember him

997
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,720
referring to it and they used to call it

998
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:50,640
snooze boulevard

999
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:52,960
and this was over all the the swedes and

1000
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:55,760
the scandinavians lived but by the 60s

1001
00:37:01,750 --> 00:36:59,440
it had it had metamorphosed into this

1002
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:01,760
bohemian area had a lot of coffee shops

1003
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:05,359
and art houses and cafes and it was kind

1004
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,800
of where all of the

1005
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:09,200
you know sort of the bohemian crowd that

1006
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:11,599
the beats you know hung out there

1007
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:14,800
um some of bob dylan's first public gigs

1008
00:37:20,230 --> 00:37:18,480
were in the cedar riverside area um

1009
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,240
you know there was so there was a whole

1010
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:22,640
music scene and then of course

1011
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:26,560
66 to 68 you could go down the street

1012
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:28,480
just like you could almost you know in

1013
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:29,760
any big

1014
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,839
major city and it's like an open air

1015
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,079
market it was like two blocks it was an

1016
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:36,079
open literally like an open-air market

1017
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:37,760
you keep anything you want for the most

1018
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,960
part

1019
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,200
right yeah so i got to know some people

1020
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:43,200
down there and and

1021
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:45,119
you know i pretty much before i knew it

1022
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:47,040
i was part of that whole scene you know

1023
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,000
for the next for the next year um and i

1024
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:52,400
experimented a whole lot

1025
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:53,680
the following summer which was the

1026
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,480
summer of 69 was pretty much

1027
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:58,400
when i terminated because

1028
00:38:02,470 --> 00:37:59,760
at that point even though i had had

1029
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,480
nothing but good experiences

1030
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,400
there was some really strange stuff

1031
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,720
showing up and

1032
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:08,560
how that stuff got there

1033
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:10,400
interesting question the word on the

1034
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:11,839
street was that it was deliberately

1035
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:14,720
being put out there that the nixon minis

1036
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:16,960
administration of course who started the

1037
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:20,160
dea and launched the drug war

1038
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,400
he was trying to you know show how evil

1039
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:24,560
these drugs were so but the statistics

1040
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:27,200
weren't really supporting it so

1041
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:28,640
there was actually i've read several

1042
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,720
things it's been years but you know

1043
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:32,160
whether it's true or not i don't know

1044
00:38:35,589 --> 00:38:33,760
but it was certainly the speculation

1045
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:35,599
that there was

1046
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:37,599
really bizarre strange stuff being

1047
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:39,280
dumped deliberately on the street so

1048
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:40,800
that people would freak out and there

1049
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:43,280
would be more emergency room calls and

1050
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,359
because there's some really weird stuff

1051
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:47,520
showed up

1052
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,720
and at that point is when i decided to

1053
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:52,400
i didn't know what i was getting anymore

1054
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:53,119
so

1055
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:55,599
you know i at one point i had

1056
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:58,640
i was second in line to sandoz

1057
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:00,720
laboratories third third in line it's

1058
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:03,680
sandoz laboratories um

1059
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:06,000
so that was the source and then that

1060
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:07,920
source ended so kind of my

1061
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:10,400
experimentation was fall of 68 to the

1062
00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:12,720
fall of 69

1063
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,800
and then i quit because

1064
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:16,000
you know you just you didn't know what

1065
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:18,000
you were getting anymore it became too

1066
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:21,920
risky but in that interim i felt like um

1067
00:39:25,349 --> 00:39:23,520
you know and i also did a lot of peyote

1068
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:25,359
i'll admit that too i did that about a

1069
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,359
dozen times and i would do it i

1070
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:29,040
discovered that if you went out into

1071
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,040
nature that was really the place to do

1072
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:33,200
it right um

1073
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,040
and it opened my eye i mean i'll have to

1074
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:37,920
say that that summer of 69

1075
00:39:42,310 --> 00:39:40,400
having these experiences out we would go

1076
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,320
uh camping in western minnesota for

1077
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,280
example or go up there's a place

1078
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,119
we used to go call this it was the saint

1079
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,359
croix along the saint croix river now

1080
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,119
the saint croix river forms the border

1081
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:53,680
of minnesota and wisconsin for

1082
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:55,839
for pretty good ways maybe 100 miles or

1083
00:40:01,270 --> 00:39:58,880
so and and it's got its head the head of

1084
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,280
the saint croix rivers almost up

1085
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:03,599
to the southern terminus of lake

1086
00:40:07,349 --> 00:40:05,839
superior now

1087
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,359
where we used to go

1088
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,760
even as kids we used to go there our dad

1089
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,280
and i'd go up there with my dad and with

1090
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:13,040
my grandparents sometimes there's a

1091
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,920
place called saint croix falls

1092
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:17,520
and in this what it is it's it's a

1093
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:20,480
basalt bedrock outcrop along the river

1094
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,400
and along the shelf which is maybe

1095
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:24,400
anywhere from 50 to a

1096
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:27,680
100 feet there's a basalt shelf

1097
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:29,839
on the west side of the river there

1098
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:31,839
and in that basalt shelf are these

1099
00:40:37,829 --> 00:40:34,880
gigantic potholes some of them are 20

1100
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,839
feet wide and 80 feet deep round

1101
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:39,920
circular holes that have been drilled

1102
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:41,839
into the bedrock right

1103
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,280
and in fact the last when i was

1104
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:48,480
guiding graham hancock across north the

1105
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:51,200
pacific northwest you know we ended uh

1106
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:53,440
in minnesota at minneapolis for the

1107
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:56,800
paradigm symposium um but the last so

1108
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:58,800
the last site what i did was i took

1109
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:01,040
graham on uh you know we visited dozens

1110
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,240
of sites

1111
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,800
so that he could understand the the the

1112
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,640
catastrophist geology that he was

1113
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:08,880
writing about magicians of the gods our

1114
00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:09,920
last

1115
00:41:14,470 --> 00:41:12,319
field stop was these potholes on the

1116
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:14,480
saint croix river and i have some really

1117
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,000
interest i was down inside one of the

1118
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,520
potholes i've got really great picture

1119
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:20,160
of graham peering over the rim down into

1120
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,960
this

1121
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:22,400
uh which we're the one i mean is

1122
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:25,440
probably 40 feet deep but so we i had

1123
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:28,240
gone there as a kid frequently and and

1124
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:30,079
and i would certainly have to say

1125
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:32,640
that that that pothole those potholes

1126
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,960
there were very intriguing to me and i

1127
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,680
remember my grandmother telling me that

1128
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,960
there had been

1129
00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:40,480
you know that they had been eroded by

1130
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,040
water lots of water you know and so of

1131
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,920
course now i understand that yes i what

1132
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:47,440
happened there it's a constriction in

1133
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:49,920
the bedrock and you had this tremendous

1134
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,920
melt water flood discharging off of

1135
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,079
what's called the superior lobe

1136
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,160
of the core of the laurentide ice sheet

1137
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:58,480
so when they when the ice was melting

1138
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,480
back catastrophically these huge

1139
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:02,480
meltwater floods came down and

1140
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:05,599
essentially cut the the canyon that is

1141
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,000
now the modern pathway of the saint

1142
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,760
croix river so

1143
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:11,680
that was one of the places i used to go

1144
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:13,280
to do my um

1145
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:17,359
you know my uh experiences um or camping

1146
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,040
out on the prairie of of western

1147
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,440
minnesota was another one and so being

1148
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:23,200
out there and being

1149
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:26,880
there was one in in 1969 where

1150
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:30,400
we were you know doing um some really

1151
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:32,960
some really nice stuff and

1152
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,359
we had set up our tents we were going to

1153
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,440
camp out on this ridge in a place called

1154
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:40,319
pipestone which which is uh refers to

1155
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:41,200
the

1156
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:47,520
and this area where we were camping was

1157
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,240
always considered to be sacred land and

1158
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,240
and even warring tribes when they were

1159
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:54,720
there extracting this red clay stone to

1160
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:57,119
use for their peace pipes recognized the

1161
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,160
sanctity of this area and wouldn't

1162
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:01,760
wouldn't engage in any violent or

1163
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,720
aggressive acts there so we were camping

1164
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:06,240
there and

1165
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:09,680
this um storm front came up and

1166
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:12,240
right in the middle of this this uh you

1167
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:15,200
know tripping on this stuff

1168
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:17,520
was in what turned out to be the the

1169
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:20,000
most ferocious storm of the decade

1170
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:22,319
according to a park ranger we talked to

1171
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:24,000
next morning um

1172
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,280
so

1173
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,599
coming through that it was like

1174
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:29,280
just like this

1175
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:30,880
experience of the

1176
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:34,240
raw power of nature right and i became

1177
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:35,599
so

1178
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,839
uh you know just obsessed with this

1179
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:40,800
really how the world worked how the

1180
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:43,440
natural world worked how phenomenal and

1181
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:46,400
how miraculous and how profound the

1182
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:49,520
whole system is i that summer of 69 is

1183
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:51,920
where i totally came away

1184
00:43:56,950 --> 00:43:54,720
with these experiences convinced that

1185
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:56,960
that there was something

1186
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:58,160
major

1187
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:00,960
to understand about this world in which

1188
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:03,200
we live that there's there's a mystery

1189
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:05,520
everything about it became mysterious to

1190
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:07,040
me and

1191
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:09,200
since then i i've been obsessed with

1192
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,920
curiosity about what is the and of

1193
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,760
course i can look back now and i can

1194
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,119
remember

1195
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:17,200
like for example there was a hill to the

1196
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:18,720
where we lived there there was a hill to

1197
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:19,599
our

1198
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,760
east where i could go up on this hill

1199
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:24,000
and it gave me a very panoramic

1200
00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:27,200
perspective of the land for miles around

1201
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:29,040
and and and there would be times i

1202
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:30,640
remember going up there and sitting up

1203
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,800
there and it was mostly overgrown with

1204
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,119
alfalfa and some summers the alfalfa

1205
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,079
might be 18 inches deep and green and

1206
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:41,040
cool and i would sit up on this hill and

1207
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:42,960
watch the weather systems coming in from

1208
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,440
the west these great armadas of cumulus

1209
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,839
clouds coming over and you could see the

1210
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,920
the shadows of you've probably seen this

1211
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,599
know what i'm talking about the shadows

1212
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:53,119
of the clouds are running over the

1213
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,240
landscape

1214
00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:56,000
doing their best to keep up with this

1215
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,680
armada of clouds that are sailing

1216
00:45:02,630 --> 00:44:59,599
overhead right and

1217
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:02,640
i would sit and the wind would blow and

1218
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,319
it would create in the alfalfa it would

1219
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:06,400
be like waves how can i describe it it

1220
00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:08,960
looked like waves green waves sweeping

1221
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:11,440
across the fields of alfalfa and of

1222
00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:14,000
course you know i'm i'm 12 13 14 years

1223
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:14,880
old

1224
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,160
and just completely high just completely

1225
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,880
enraptured with this whole experience

1226
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,040
and as i'm looking out i can still

1227
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:25,760
remember this sense this that i couldn't

1228
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:26,960
put my finger on that i couldn't

1229
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:28,000
describe

1230
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:29,920
but a sense that that there was a

1231
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,280
mystery or a meaning in this landscape

1232
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:34,960
that that there was meaning was it just

1233
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:37,040
a hill a random hill or a rainbow or a

1234
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:40,319
tree right right right right it was it

1235
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:42,000
was there was a meaning there it was

1236
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,839
like it would be maybe somebody like who

1237
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,119
didn't know how to read who is

1238
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:47,359
illiterate but looking at a book and

1239
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:48,960
going i know there's meaning there i

1240
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,000
just can't decipher it right you see so

1241
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:54,720
somewhere along the line that

1242
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:55,520
that

1243
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,400
um

1244
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:58,160
idea that

1245
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:59,920
that way of thinking about the world

1246
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,040
just

1247
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:03,680
it became part of my psychology and i've

1248
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:05,760
been that way ever since

1249
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:08,079
obsessed with understanding the hidden

1250
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,680
meaning of this world i guess that's the

1251
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:11,200
only way i can put it

1252
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:13,599
and uh let's set this up for when we

1253
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,319
come back um at uh what was the

1254
00:46:23,829 --> 00:46:20,960
you know because i have i have my

1255
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:23,839
memories of this and i i still stand by

1256
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:24,720
them

1257
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:26,000
what was

1258
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:30,079
like the the turning point fact you know

1259
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:33,280
from a book or from from a researcher

1260
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,040
where you went okay all right here we go

1261
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,119
you know the one thing

1262
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,520
do you remember what that was

1263
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:43,200
well i would say

1264
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,000
if we

1265
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,800
jump forward now one year summer of 70

1266
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:48,319
right

1267
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:50,560
i spent most of the whole that summer

1268
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,720
for all well really the better part of

1269
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:54,319
four months

1270
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:56,240
just traveling around the western part

1271
00:47:01,829 --> 00:46:58,560
of the of the united states um spent a

1272
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:01,839
lot of time in colorado but i hitchhiked

1273
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:05,200
hiked road with the buddy for a while

1274
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,640
and went through colorado wyoming utah

1275
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:11,280
idaho washington montana

1276
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:13,599
um

1277
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:15,599
parts of oregon so

1278
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,079
and with a backpack so i spent about

1279
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,240
four months with a backpack

1280
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,400
going around and sleeping out by the

1281
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:24,640
side of mountain creeks and up you know

1282
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:27,839
on on mountain sides spent um

1283
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:30,720
about two or two to three weeks up right

1284
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:31,599
almost

1285
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,160
camped out on the continental divide

1286
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:36,880
right up uh at the foot of mount audubon

1287
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:39,119
and so

1288
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:43,119
that definitely had a major major made a

1289
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:45,280
major impression on me um

1290
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,960
you know in terms of this sense that i

1291
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,400
had that there was

1292
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,160
some kind of a hidden meaning to the

1293
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:53,280
world um really gelled that summer and

1294
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,800
spending that time

1295
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,680
um

1296
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,599
you know out there you know i slept out

1297
00:48:01,349 --> 00:47:59,520
pretty much under the stars every night

1298
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:01,359
for those four months

1299
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:03,280
um you know and then

1300
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:04,960
would wake up and

1301
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,119
you know i spent a week in the black

1302
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,079
hills of south dakota camping out um you

1303
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:12,640
know went out to olympic peninsula and

1304
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:13,680
and

1305
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:15,760
stayed out there for whatever four or

1306
00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:18,160
five days camping on the peninsula you

1307
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:20,560
know in montana in washington

1308
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:22,800
and and i think the one thing that

1309
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,000
really left a big impression on me

1310
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,079
something that really

1311
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,160
instigated this sense that there was

1312
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:32,319
something some meaning that needed to be

1313
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:34,400
extracted from the landscape

1314
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:37,680
was going along going taking this

1315
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:38,800
uh

1316
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:41,760
with was actually with a friend of mine

1317
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,079
at that point who had joined me in my

1318
00:48:50,230 --> 00:48:46,960
travels and he had a dodge van and we

1319
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:50,240
were driving through the columbia gorge

1320
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,839
um that forms the border between

1321
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:53,280
washington and oregon i don't know if

1322
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:54,880
you've ever made that drive through i

1323
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:57,359
have your gourd i have you know you know

1324
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:58,079
how

1325
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,640
massive the gorge is and when you see

1326
00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:04,880
these tributaries coming in

1327
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:06,960
and there are these massive delta

1328
00:49:10,549 --> 00:49:08,800
terraces built out from the mouths of

1329
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,559
the tributaries that

1330
00:49:16,390 --> 00:49:13,280
i that really impressed me like what are

1331
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,400
what is this you know so that summer of

1332
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:19,040
70 and spending those four months is

1333
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:21,680
sort of what clinched everything for me

1334
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:24,000
from that point on i was i began you

1335
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:25,839
know reading whatever i could get my

1336
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:27,839
hands on that would would tell me more

1337
00:49:31,270 --> 00:49:30,480
about that and so i was led into

1338
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:31,280
um

1339
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:33,200
of course i'm sure you and a lot of your

1340
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:34,800
listeners have heard of emmanuel

1341
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:36,640
velikovsky

1342
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:39,440
his work was available in the early 70s

1343
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,720
so i remember reading him and you know

1344
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:44,480
at that point you know he one of the

1345
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,920
things that he did was he began to

1346
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,960
integrate

1347
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:47,839
um

1348
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:50,520
catastrophism geological catastrophism

1349
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,960
paleontological catastrophism with

1350
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:55,440
mythology right that was kind of what he

1351
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,680
did now he he's been he's been really

1352
00:50:02,630 --> 00:49:59,760
criticized by um

1353
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:02,640
you know mainstream scientists and you

1354
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:05,119
know what he was doing back in the 50s

1355
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,079
he was laboring under the the limited uh

1356
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:10,400
amount of knowledge we had

1357
00:50:13,349 --> 00:50:11,520
yeah

1358
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:13,359
well we need to take a break right here

1359
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,920
but what we knew and understood

1360
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:17,839
about the universe and the solar system

1361
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:20,880
compared to today was limited

1362
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:21,920
but

1363
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:25,920
his outlook on orbits and worlds and how

1364
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:28,640
we got here was absolutely without a

1365
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,480
doubt revolutionary and it caused

1366
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:32,960
randall in my opinion it caused us to

1367
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:35,359
ask questions and that's what we're

1368
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:36,800
going to do when we come back let's

1369
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:38,640
continue this conversation absolutely

1370
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:40,480
amazing this is fade to black

1371
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:42,559
our guest tonight randall carlson i'm

1372
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:50,710
you have just listened to a full hour

1373
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:53,760
free preview of fade to black to get the

1374
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:55,280
full show

1375
00:50:59,870 --> 00:50:58,400
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1376
00:51:02,230 --> 00:50:59,880
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1377
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,240
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1378
00:51:09,030 --> 00:51:04,800
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1379
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,040
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1380
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:12,000
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